Game On
Interview with Eric Siu
Some people see video games in a negative light, but one entrepreneur and corporate advisor, Eric Siu, is aiming to use the lessons he’s learned as a gamer to help business owners see the world differently. Here he talks about how he helps to ramp up a business and the takeaways from his book, Leveling Up.

Some people see video games in a negative light, but one entrepreneur and corporate advisor, Eric Siu, is aiming to use the lessons he’s learned as a gamer to help business owners see the world differently. Here he talks about how he helps to ramp up a business and the takeaways from his book, Leveling Up.
At its core, your philosophy is about gamifying businesses. Would you explain this concept?
As the name suggests, gamifying is about viewing life through the lens of playing a game. To me, part of the rush of a game is getting power-ups—you’re going out there into the game’s world, collecting power-ups, and getting a little stronger.
In life, it’s very similar as far as building habits and mental models. For example, before I go to bed, I have sleep-optimization tools to help me perform better: my bed cools itself, and the room’s at 68 degrees. When my day starts, I fill out my journal, which optimizes my brain and gets my day started on the right foot. Meditating, training, and using my Peloton are other forms of power-ups for me. Building habits is one form of gamification, but other important gaming aspects also apply to business, like having conversations and building relationships. When you think about business, it’s really a game.
Do you find that wanting to win at business is a common trait for entrepreneurs?
Yes. At a certain point, entrepreneurs don’t need any more money. So why do they keep doing it? The ones I’ve talked to say they just enjoy playing the game.

Video games have a conclusion, usually competing against a so-called “boss.” How does that translate to business?
In business, the game’s not supposed to end. You basically play it your entire life. That’s the fun. I think that when you start a business or play sports, there’s an end in mind; it’s a zero-sum game. But if you keep enjoying the journey every single day, that journey will never end. You just keep getting stronger and keep compounding wins over time.
Some people talk about the infinite game, a concept advanced by Simon Sinek. The idea is that, when you play the infinite game, you’re playing long-term games with long-term people, especially in the internet marketing world. People are too often focused on short-term profits. But if you look at the best investors in the world, they have such long-term outlooks. You hear Charlie Munger talk about deferred gratification. The longer you can wait, the better. The problem I see, especially in the world of marketing, is people are jumping from project to project and profit to profit. They’re not thinking about how you build a long-term culture and team and how to serve the customers instead of being self-focused. As Howard Marks says, if you stay at a bus stop, you’ll eventually catch a bus, but if you go from bus stop to bus stop, you may never catch one. And this is about a win. I think there’s too much short-termism, and it causes people to have a schizophrenic approach where they’re hopping from thing to thing because oftentimes they can’t take the pain associated with the time it takes to focus long term.
You were also a serious poker player. What did you learn from that game?
Poker teaches you a lot of pain. You can bring your A game for three, six, or twelve months, and the variants will still catch up to you and you’ll lose for all twelve months. It doesn’t matter how good you are.
So poker really humbles you, and it teaches you to become unemotional when the pain comes. For example, if I get turned down, I can get angry about it or say, “That’s great; give me more.” You turn that rejection into fuel, and it becomes strength instead of feeling down about yourself. Part of Leveling Up is about reframing how things are. Because, at the end of the day, people don’t like to talk about this much, but those who are super successful have a different type of mindset.

Why is the book called Leveling Up?
That was intentional. It’s called Leveling Up (not Level Up) because you’re constantly trying to get stronger. Level up is just one level, but leveling up is a continual process. It doesn’t have to be fast, either; it depends on how far you want to take it.
Each chapter of your book relates a different video-game concept to business. Do you have any favorites?
One of the key chapters is about thievery. I love that chapter because there’s cognitive dissonance tied to it—people like to think they’re original and don’t want to believe they’re copiers. We take that to be very sacred. But Steve Jobs said that everything in life is just a remix. Picasso said great artists steal. When people watch podcasts, they’re finding things they can apply to themselves. That’s why I think thievery is great.
I’ll share a personal example about it. When I was twelve years old, I entered a gaming championship. I got destroyed in the prelims because I had no strategy. But I got lucky with my timing because I got to watch someone else play. I just stole whatever they were doing and made it my own strategy. I then swept everyone else and won the championship. At that age, I realized that maybe I should just copy people. So I’m trying to get people to reframe and understand that it’s OK to borrow and build on the shoulders of titans.
Which habits do you swear by?
I love repetition, which is all about building great habits. I took this concept from Stanford professor BJ Fogg. He talks about tiny habits. For example, if you don’t floss, maybe you start by flossing one tooth a day. If you start running, maybe you just put your running shoes on once a day, and it’ll get you going on that habit.
What’s the biggest takeaway a business owner can get from Leveling Up?
There are a lot of habit-building books out there. So, again, even my book is a reframing: building on top of other habit books. This one just happens to be tied to people who have played at least one game in their life. The fifteen power-ups in the book are just the beginning. There are so many other habits to build out in the world, so Leveling Up includes a journal to track all you do if you want to keep going. It’s a journal I fill out every day.
You run a business and have two podcasts. Why add a book to the mix?
You write a book when you have a message to deliver. I did e-sports before it became a thing, but business and marketing are what I’m obsessed with and the games I’m playing right now. Around three billion people worldwide play video games, yet there’s a stigma tied to it. People need to understand that a lot of what you learn in gaming—resilience, teamwork, communication—translates amazingly to the real world, just like sports. My goal is to help the world level up through marketing, and my message is that gaming can create leaders. After all, life is a game you play every day; it’s just a lot more fun and productive to look at it that way.
For more info, visit levelingup.com